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Thanks Steve, I have been mulling over your final point what is the piesrce problem?The problem is that the majority of the time my Process Management efforts are pushed aside by projects that are scoped to deliver an IT system. The project thinks they are doing the right thing, why they have a Business Analyst busily mapping processes; however this will not lead to sustainable process improvement. Usually it just delivers a new IT system.I have worked with several BPM frameworks that clearly define the Process Project coming before the IT project this is what I am aiming for in the above post. Even talking to non-IT project people, they always seem to miss the concept and the project is back to delivering the wrong change.CheersCraig

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